in response
to zis:
(I love that precious lass more than life itself, no exaggeration...so in the end the greatest gift GoT gave me was the discovery of my new favorite singing actress+person ever. Which suffices.)
But if they were gonna chat with her, couldn't they have tried to go for an interesting new article instead of deliberately fishing for the same regurgitated-for-the-hundredth-time, dance-around-the-issues script that you know every cast member began prepping right after the table read?
It still smarts that after years of intense engrossment and jubilant excitement, I won't be able to rewatch one of television's greatest achievements without leaving off the last three episodes and filling in the end for myself. I anticipated an end at least on par with the rest, and was betrayed. Never in my wildest dreams did I see them pretty much racing through a list of quickest, dumbest ways to wreck the story and going with them, but here we are. I didn't have one specific acceptable conclusion mapped out; it was just a matter of the bizarrely short, bafflingly simplistic season delivering multiple orders of magnitude less than the prior seven. Especially the first six. It didn't jive with the series' inherent promise or direction of flow since the very beginning, with what could reasonably be hoped for or generally expected based upon itself (together with the books if one is familiar with them.) By the halfway point I was in the twilight zone, watching the end of some entirely separate show from another dimension. (In acting and every other respect, of course, it remained top-notch. Save for the emblematic coffee cup and water bottles.)
I tend toward long-windedness, but the six episodes yielded some crazy-long blog rants even for me. Even trying to boil it down to the biggies, though, is depressing. Night King lasting one bloody "long" night and not even getting past the North, flimsy retconning of a line about killing people of all eye colors because Arya's gotta kill him becauuuusse...she's got the stupid dagger, that's literally it. Never mind that she shouldn't have been able to use it. The twice-assassinated yet eternally celebrated Daenerys who deserves infinitely better (and WILL have it once resurrected by Kinvara as her true, non-mad self!) Ultimate-villain Bran the Busted being treated by formerly intelligent people as if his thoroughly worthless, troublemaking, smug, creepy old hide deserves the wheelie-throne...as if there were a single shred of sweetness to the supposedly "bittersweet" conclusion. Any number of slightly smaller let-downs, puzzlements, or outrages--many based in the inexplicable sudden idiocy of nearly every character. That's what it comes down to. And innumerable examples of possible character & plot-element involvement, plus potential interactions and brilliant directions and logical or heavily foreshadowed events which could yet be possibilities in the books, should the remaining installments by some miracle ever actually be written (not really counting on it)--all just unfathomably thrown out the window. Perhaps fine if one were to put no thought whatsoever into anything at all, but uncharacteristic for this detail-oriented series to say the very very least. You don't just throw out almost everything that could've made it great because you know you can't give everybody exactly what they want. No matter how many times I try to tell myself that the journey mattered more than the destination, there's still no way not to be repeatedly shell-shocked that it wasn't a massive April Fool's. In the seemingly likely event that two more books aren't in the cards, I need to hear from GRRM himself that this was indeed the conclusion he gave them...
But if they were gonna chat with her, couldn't they have tried to go for an interesting new article instead of deliberately fishing for the same regurgitated-for-the-hundredth-time, dance-around-the-issues script that you know every cast member began prepping right after the table read?
It still smarts that after years of intense engrossment and jubilant excitement, I won't be able to rewatch one of television's greatest achievements without leaving off the last three episodes and filling in the end for myself. I anticipated an end at least on par with the rest, and was betrayed. Never in my wildest dreams did I see them pretty much racing through a list of quickest, dumbest ways to wreck the story and going with them, but here we are. I didn't have one specific acceptable conclusion mapped out; it was just a matter of the bizarrely short, bafflingly simplistic season delivering multiple orders of magnitude less than the prior seven. Especially the first six. It didn't jive with the series' inherent promise or direction of flow since the very beginning, with what could reasonably be hoped for or generally expected based upon itself (together with the books if one is familiar with them.) By the halfway point I was in the twilight zone, watching the end of some entirely separate show from another dimension. (In acting and every other respect, of course, it remained top-notch. Save for the emblematic coffee cup and water bottles.)
I tend toward long-windedness, but the six episodes yielded some crazy-long blog rants even for me. Even trying to boil it down to the biggies, though, is depressing. Night King lasting one bloody "long" night and not even getting past the North, flimsy retconning of a line about killing people of all eye colors because Arya's gotta kill him becauuuusse...she's got the stupid dagger, that's literally it. Never mind that she shouldn't have been able to use it. The twice-assassinated yet eternally celebrated Daenerys who deserves infinitely better (and WILL have it once resurrected by Kinvara as her true, non-mad self!) Ultimate-villain Bran the Busted being treated by formerly intelligent people as if his thoroughly worthless, troublemaking, smug, creepy old hide deserves the wheelie-throne...as if there were a single shred of sweetness to the supposedly "bittersweet" conclusion. Any number of slightly smaller let-downs, puzzlements, or outrages--many based in the inexplicable sudden idiocy of nearly every character. That's what it comes down to. And innumerable examples of possible character & plot-element involvement, plus potential interactions and brilliant directions and logical or heavily foreshadowed events which could yet be possibilities in the books, should the remaining installments by some miracle ever actually be written (not really counting on it)--all just unfathomably thrown out the window. Perhaps fine if one were to put no thought whatsoever into anything at all, but uncharacteristic for this detail-oriented series to say the very very least. You don't just throw out almost everything that could've made it great because you know you can't give everybody exactly what they want. No matter how many times I try to tell myself that the journey mattered more than the destination, there's still no way not to be repeatedly shell-shocked that it wasn't a massive April Fool's. In the seemingly likely event that two more books aren't in the cards, I need to hear from GRRM himself that this was indeed the conclusion he gave them...
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P.S. Briefly may Sansa reign!
...And would I have dug a Mel/Cersei scene? Heck yeah, sure. Would've loved scenes for them with a LOT of other characters. Unlike Cersei, though, Mel was never actually evil or a villain. The only interest she'd have in the real mad queen would be if Cersei could somehow be of use to R'hllor. Her power could be appealing and/or threatening to Cersei, who has been, eheh, burned by religion before.
...Istg. Just took a survey re: S8 most excellently, and every time I'm forced to think of it I get mad all over again. Just, grrrrrrrrr. So few characters escaped untarnished (Dany and Mel chief among them, for that was very obviously not our Daenerys.) More survived than should have, and I'd rather have suffered some emotional losses than watched so many beloved ones devolve into stupid OOC dillweeds.
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Reacting to this season ranking & 1-year reflection on the end of GoT:
8 and 7 are the bottom two, yep...and then probably 5 even though I don't take as much issue with it as many seem to. The rest, though, I've never been able to rank. 2-4 always blur together; that's where the show has just taken off and is flowing and totally fabulous. 6 is another super-high and also a personal favorite, in that I took particular notice of loving it whilst re-watching in preparation for the end. I was just like, "Wow, it's all getting so so so great right now." Way too many epic, iconic moments. And of course 1, where it all began, was excellent and didn't take long to hit its stride. There are flaws to point out here and there as the article did, but they're pretty mild and very easily forgivable, all things considered.
I despise Sansa, but that doesn't mean she's not a well-developed character, so I suppose I could accept her being their S6 "MVP." Especially since there were still so many people around then, and so many were being so heckin' awesome, it's too mind-boggling to even try to pick. I'd almost always go with one of my favorites, but I had LOADS of those, soooo...
Arya, always in my top 5 and always the character to whom I most related for seven seasons, spent the last ticking me off. Far from cheering when she took out the NK, I was devastated by the quick elimination of infinite wondrous possibilities for the rest of the plot. And her "letting go of vengeance" fell totally flat; she only had one person left on the list, the person she SHOULD have assassinated...luckily Cersei was done for anyway, but there was no significance to Arya deciding not to do it herself. Sure, that would've been satisfying, but she wasn't gonna be suicidal just for that satisfaction.
Parts of 7 & to some degree 5 exemplify how I may have been a bit blind to or willing to overlook/explain away flaws that others were seeing already. It helped that there was still a lot of time left and you could hope for things to come together and make sense if they didn't seem to be doing so. Or I just had too much faith in the writers. Stuff I was as fine with before as anything from the first four seasons is a little shaky, at least, when you think about it. Dorne is likely the overall low-point plot thread of the whole series.
And just lop off the last three episodes, naturally.
The Cersei "rape" scene...hmm. Think it always looked consensual enough to me, like part of her head was saying "No this is wrong," but her body was saying yes to the point that the protestations were feeble and she didn't actually fight it off. Trying to ignore my loathing of her, it's...well, nonviolent and still disturbing pretty much just in the twincest-by-their-son's-corpse aspect. xD; (And CONSIDERING my loathing of her, I wouldn't have much cared whether or not she felt like brotherfucking at that particular moment anyway.)
Jon's resurrection was brill. By that point I had a sense that he was a character too central for too long to actually leave dead, though I wasn't quite sure of that until the plausible return/resurrection theories began to take hold and were rather persuasive.
~
I mean, I am angry *that* they turned Dany into a mad queen because it's difficult to think of circumstances which would've made her actions believable--although some have been suggested which would've worked infinitely better than that ridiculous nonsense onscreen. King Bran? Looking back to the beginning, sure, if you'd been told at the start that he would wind up on the "throne" in the end...it would've felt possible. He was the heir to Winterfell, after all. One could imagine an already-noble child growing up and reaching a position where he could be crowned. Of course, that was before he became uber-creepy Birdtreeroboboy with supposedly phenomenal abilities but absolutely no willingness to use them for any purpose outside his own empowerment.
Arya leaving (all by herself??) to "explore" would have had much more impact had the season been the anticipated masterpiece it could/should have been. And if it wasn't bordered by the infuriating coronation of Sansa. Drogon melting the throne is...fine the way I interpreted it, but again, what could've been a high just can't make up for the disastrous, disgusting lows. The end's just so incompatible with the rest.
I despise Sansa, but that doesn't mean she's not a well-developed character, so I suppose I could accept her being their S6 "MVP." Especially since there were still so many people around then, and so many were being so heckin' awesome, it's too mind-boggling to even try to pick. I'd almost always go with one of my favorites, but I had LOADS of those, soooo...
Arya, always in my top 5 and always the character to whom I most related for seven seasons, spent the last ticking me off. Far from cheering when she took out the NK, I was devastated by the quick elimination of infinite wondrous possibilities for the rest of the plot. And her "letting go of vengeance" fell totally flat; she only had one person left on the list, the person she SHOULD have assassinated...luckily Cersei was done for anyway, but there was no significance to Arya deciding not to do it herself. Sure, that would've been satisfying, but she wasn't gonna be suicidal just for that satisfaction.
Parts of 7 & to some degree 5 exemplify how I may have been a bit blind to or willing to overlook/explain away flaws that others were seeing already. It helped that there was still a lot of time left and you could hope for things to come together and make sense if they didn't seem to be doing so. Or I just had too much faith in the writers. Stuff I was as fine with before as anything from the first four seasons is a little shaky, at least, when you think about it. Dorne is likely the overall low-point plot thread of the whole series.
And just lop off the last three episodes, naturally.
The Cersei "rape" scene...hmm. Think it always looked consensual enough to me, like part of her head was saying "No this is wrong," but her body was saying yes to the point that the protestations were feeble and she didn't actually fight it off. Trying to ignore my loathing of her, it's...well, nonviolent and still disturbing pretty much just in the twincest-by-their-son's-corpse aspect. xD; (And CONSIDERING my loathing of her, I wouldn't have much cared whether or not she felt like brotherfucking at that particular moment anyway.)
Jon's resurrection was brill. By that point I had a sense that he was a character too central for too long to actually leave dead, though I wasn't quite sure of that until the plausible return/resurrection theories began to take hold and were rather persuasive.
~
I mean, I am angry *that* they turned Dany into a mad queen because it's difficult to think of circumstances which would've made her actions believable--although some have been suggested which would've worked infinitely better than that ridiculous nonsense onscreen. King Bran? Looking back to the beginning, sure, if you'd been told at the start that he would wind up on the "throne" in the end...it would've felt possible. He was the heir to Winterfell, after all. One could imagine an already-noble child growing up and reaching a position where he could be crowned. Of course, that was before he became uber-creepy Birdtreeroboboy with supposedly phenomenal abilities but absolutely no willingness to use them for any purpose outside his own empowerment.
Arya leaving (all by herself??) to "explore" would have had much more impact had the season been the anticipated masterpiece it could/should have been. And if it wasn't bordered by the infuriating coronation of Sansa. Drogon melting the throne is...fine the way I interpreted it, but again, what could've been a high just can't make up for the disastrous, disgusting lows. The end's just so incompatible with the rest.
In descending order: 2->1->3->4->6->5
2 was almost flawless on its own. 1 was basically adequate--very imperfect upon reflection, but at the time I was willing to forgive some of the bull by looking at it as the start of necessary conflict setup...rather than despicable early attempts to lead the dumb audience by the nose, which didn't need to eventually pan out as they did. 3 had a considerable number of big issues and was the beginning of the end--soon as the NK shattered and the greatest danger, the ultimate looming threat that presented all the most exciting possibilities as to where things could go was actually eliminated at the halfway point, I was just wholloped with this indescribably horrid sinking feeling. Like hammered straight through the floor; I'll never be able to forget it. GoT was the Titanic and that was the iceberg. Or ice cubes, I suppose. Way to go. -_- Sure enough, the last three were another show entirely...one that never ever would have been a success in the first place had it begun on that level. At first I made an incredibly valiant effort to maintain some hope and look on the brighter side of 4, but 5 obliterated that. And then 6, ugh. I guess the last third of it was best, thanks to the humor and sort-of-acceptable final scenes for certain people. But the potential impact that the finale could & should have had was diminished to a teeny-tiny fraction.
Like Theon's death and innumerable other points, Arya's storyline fell flat. She could've killed Cersei and been done with it. They had a faceless assassin on their side who'd somehow just taken out the incarnation of death, and failed to realize what a secret weapon that was...nah, just let her mosey off and try to accomplish your goal without telling you...just, inexplicable. Their multiple failures can only be chalked up to a mad rush to simply hit the primary plot points as quickly as possible. Breakneck speed. And no sympathy for Cersei! Only disappointment at the lameness of her death and Jaime's total hopeless stupidity.
To rank episodes...agree with TWoW being #1. Bottom 3=Bells, Iron Throne, Last of the Starks.
2 was almost flawless on its own. 1 was basically adequate--very imperfect upon reflection, but at the time I was willing to forgive some of the bull by looking at it as the start of necessary conflict setup...rather than despicable early attempts to lead the dumb audience by the nose, which didn't need to eventually pan out as they did. 3 had a considerable number of big issues and was the beginning of the end--soon as the NK shattered and the greatest danger, the ultimate looming threat that presented all the most exciting possibilities as to where things could go was actually eliminated at the halfway point, I was just wholloped with this indescribably horrid sinking feeling. Like hammered straight through the floor; I'll never be able to forget it. GoT was the Titanic and that was the iceberg. Or ice cubes, I suppose. Way to go. -_- Sure enough, the last three were another show entirely...one that never ever would have been a success in the first place had it begun on that level. At first I made an incredibly valiant effort to maintain some hope and look on the brighter side of 4, but 5 obliterated that. And then 6, ugh. I guess the last third of it was best, thanks to the humor and sort-of-acceptable final scenes for certain people. But the potential impact that the finale could & should have had was diminished to a teeny-tiny fraction.
Like Theon's death and innumerable other points, Arya's storyline fell flat. She could've killed Cersei and been done with it. They had a faceless assassin on their side who'd somehow just taken out the incarnation of death, and failed to realize what a secret weapon that was...nah, just let her mosey off and try to accomplish your goal without telling you...just, inexplicable. Their multiple failures can only be chalked up to a mad rush to simply hit the primary plot points as quickly as possible. Breakneck speed. And no sympathy for Cersei! Only disappointment at the lameness of her death and Jaime's total hopeless stupidity.
To rank episodes...agree with TWoW being #1. Bottom 3=Bells, Iron Throne, Last of the Starks.
From the start, Daenerys was a protector of innocents--and she never altered the definition of innocent. She'd never even meditated before on this ridiculous bullshit about slaves rebelling against masters when she showed up and freed them. Yes, like DUH, slaves will support the person liberating them and giving them rights over the people who own and abuse them. The Westerosi morons, such as those of KL, weren't slaves. Dany *wasn't* a moron; she knew that. Obviously they couldn't just know whether she'd be better or worse for them as queen than Cersei. They were just neutral parties; it wasn't a city informed about and united against the Dragon Queen, built on and stubbornly invested in evil things she wanted to change, asking for destruction. 'But Oh NoEs, we only have a couple episodes left!!!1! :0 Yes, that's our own retarded-as-hell fault, but still! So instead of writing something intelligent about Team Dany attempting to get this message out, all you get is unrecognizable (god that applies to so many characters), FUBAR'd Crazy-Dany for about two episodes out of the blue. Because we no longer have a scrap of respect for any of you. She'll intentionally plow down her own brand-new populace. And then she'll die.' AH YES. But then, a glorious and eternal new era shall usher in...wherein, Daenerys Targaryen is an even more beloved, celebrated, admired, and revered icon than ever...whilst D&D were just forced to get a massive head-start on social distancing for imploding TV's crown jewel. Whomp, whomp, whoooommmmp. The backfiring of their pathetically transparent plot to assassinate her was particularly delicious. Because that blasphemous nonsense was a deep insult to the audience and to a brilliant character that said audience was VERY obviously intended to love, root for, and idolize. Perhaps there could be a way to do a comprehensible tragic downward spiral, but that sure as shit wasn't it. 'Twas rank.
ReplyDeleteDany never killed or threatened innocents. She dispensed justice. Not always perfectly, because “perfection”’s practically impossible, especially in that medieval world and in a position such as hers. But compared with everybody else on Planetos? Dany was at least on par with other potential great choices of leader. Nothing she’d ever done was remotely comparable to the King’s Landing sack which just plain made 0 sense for her to do. It was beyond unnecessary and ooc.
ReplyDeleteShe—still a somewhat naive and idealistic young girl with a particularly cruel childhood who’s training to be a queen, lest we forget!—made big threats when cornered, desperate, and facing groups of apparently totally unified, stubborn enemies who would respond only to dragonfire taking down their built-on-evil cities. Because they rejected her and the world she wanted to create, which would have been good for everyone rather than just the people of those cities. It goes without saying that she wouldn’t have been after anyone who was innocent or on her side or even neutral. She was so explicitly about saving/sparing those people and showing them a better world free of endless tyrants. The whole “becoming the enemy you’re fighting” thing has been done, and even if GRRM thought way back when that it’d be clever to do it with Daenerys, his way of getting her to that point would have to be 9999999999x more convincing than the nasty, slimy “well I guess she’s just suddenly out of her mind” hairball the show hocked up. Infinitely more believable would be the Bran controlling Drogon, or accidental wildfire detonation, or something else accidental or perhaps deliberate after a very hard choice had to be made for the greatest good...SOMETHING. ANYTHING.
I’ve read so damn many tons of brilliant ideas from so damn many people both before and after the final season aired, who tragically weren’t the ones tasked with writing it!! Nobody I can think of was married to a particular specific pet theory that was going to make or break it for them. Nobody was saying, “If my complex predictions don’t play out just so I will despise and reject the entire ending.” People simply resented the equivalent of getting spit in the eye after years of following along, paying HBO, buying merch, & spending a lot of time thinking about and generally getting really into it because they were being led to believe that there’d ultimately be one whole helluva lot more than this feeble flimflam.
Don't even bother comparing a natural threat against a city of slavers viciously attacking her because they don't want to give up their lifestyle...with destroying the city she wanted AFTER having already won it. For no. Reason. Whatsoever. The pain of this utter betrayal is softened only by the fact that from then on, Daenerys was no longer Daenerys. She'd been body-swapped, and will only reenter hers when Drogon takes her for resurrection. ^u^
And if I ever hear the Arya/NK horseshit described as a "get up and cheer" kind of moment again, Istg...gonna have to cut a bitch. If I could've physically sunk through the living room floor into the basement after that, I would've. "NO NO NO NO NONONONONONONO...that is not it, that can't POSSIBLY be it........THAT'S it...?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?" There hadn't been words to describe my excitement for S8. Then suddenly, there were no words for the disappointment. And it only got unfathomably worse and worse.
ReplyDeleteanswering some MF WANKERS:
ReplyDeleteGood points re: Bran--humans have to be ruled by something "superior" (and clearly malevolent, or at the very least apathetic, and overpowered), no real-world analogue to him so story feels less connected/relevant in the end, why would people trust him...etc. etc. Suddenly everyone in Westeros is dumber than a bag of rocks because the story had to end in six quick eps, an unforgivably tragic waste of seven years. Huge "let's just get this over with" energy. "Clumsy" wouldn't begin to describe. S8 may have taken the longest but that was everything except writing, and even if those scripts had taken a decade there's no excuse. But GRRM must shoulder some blame too.
Will I ever buy Dany's about-face or Tyrion's claim that being Hand is a "punishment?" Of course not. Poor Dany wasn't on track to being her father 'til the last episode-and-a-half. Bran seems to either want horrific tragedy and chaos to occur and benefit him/catapult him to power, or not care about helping good/fighting evil at all. The NK was coming after him. The rest couldn't very well just hide him forever. The idea that he was willing to put himself at risk to help defeat the dead is like...ehhhh. Who knows what he knew and when; it's just too unclear to try to make him out as heroic. And if he doesn't really even value his life anymore, then how big a sacrifice is it anyway? It's not as if he said, "If I give myself up to the NK he'll leave y'all alone," and they were all, "No Bran don't do it!" He didn't exactly set himself up so much as they all placed him there because it seemed necessary. (And I mean, he can't move himself...)
Jon being a Targ meant almost nothing, but the little it did contribute was part of Bran trying to destabilize and cause trouble. All of Bran's advantages and potential capabilities as king also make him incredibly dangerous. Dany was a flawed human like all others, but well set to being a humane wheel-breaker. Jon's parentage really shouldn't have been all that big a deal since he and Dany weren't rivals. But it was the only thing that could be revealed in an effort to generate some strife or try to ignite her genetic madness by saying, "You're not the true heir after all." (I still entertain the notion that she subconsciously wanted Jon to take it and thus sabotaged herself. Makes more sense than any other attempt to explain why she'd do that after SHE CAME ALL THIS WAY and suffered through so much all toward the goal of building a better world for all...)
Theon's death did seem like a quick, pointless suicide. Arya seemed to just do what Mel told her to; she shouldn't have been able to, yelling like that and somehow not getting her neck immediately snapped even if all the other Walkers inexplicably didn't see/catch her...felt like it was magically predestined and enabled by the LoL, and he needed his most faithful servant there to help out and then ensure that the NK was taken out at the right moment. Still seems wrong that it needed to be Arya, and that the method was just "run up and stab." Why not see one Walker reveal itself to be Meli herself in disguise, and get him with WW-killing material? Or something...anything but "run, jump, scream, somehow not get killed, stab." Like, that's kinda the lamest, worst thing you could've gone with. Just, wtf.
TB's forever a hero, heehee.
Also, I'm a huge lady-brony/pegasister (got into MLP:FiM/G4) and a massive Effie Trinket fan. <3 She's still the only Effie I can think of. x3
Being the enemy of evil and dealing decisively with your opponents does not mean you're headed for eventual tyranny. Your favorite superhero isn't going to suddenly begin slaughtering civilians of their own accord. And the ideal leader isn't just somebody who "doesn't want it." They should be more motivated than Robert, with a certain eagerness or willingness--yet also soberly aware of the responsibility they're taking on. Wanting it for the right reasons, not for its own sake. There are enough examples of aggressive, selfish power-abusers and tyrant-types. Some reluctance could be acceptable, but ultimately the person should want it.
ReplyDeleteTyrion enjoyed nothing more than exercising power, but at some point turned into such a hypocritical dipshit dumbfuck that it's no longer reassuring to think of him as "the power behind the wheelchair."
Daenerys is so easily defensible, it's absurd. Unless George changed some crucial stuff late in the game, D&D didn't give anywhere near the best possible handling to the info they had--would be nice to know what they knew and when.
Or perhaps this is partially my fault for missing the episode where Dany was conditioned to go on meaningless murder sprees in response to the sound of ringing bells, and a bunch of other characters were abducted by aliens and replaced with their s8 versions. My bad!